Christian Karaoke!
When I brought my cousin to church for the first time, he found the singing thing completely weird. He told me it was like singing Christian Karaoke. When I think about it though – there is something quite odd in it really. We follow words on a screen in a happy sing-a-long. Maybe this is out of place for most people outside of campfires and Irish bars!!
The Psalms encourage us to siiiiing to God in countless places. But how do we do it in a way that doesn’t just seem like a Karaoke session? How do we make it full of meaning and intent? And how do we allow a space where someone new in the group can understand it better?
My squeak for the day!!
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I hear that squeak and I raise you two! I grew up in the church and I still find the whole Christian karaoke, everybody-sway-gently-from-side-to-side-with-rapturous-expressions-on-their-faces worship ritual STRANGE.
Actually, there has been a recent movement within the church to combat this type of worship, namely the grim neo-earnestness that pleads for more “authenticity” in worship.
As a first-hand witness to this phenomenon, I would say the the results have been very mixed. If people find it disconcerting that their chosen church service resembles a downtown Tokyo karaoke bar then, believe me, they find downright insulting the suggestion that their efforts in worship are somehow not “4 real”
Oink oink
deusjuvat
What is your advice regarding worship styles?
Nic
I suppose my point would be that worship has always been rooted in populist styles. Some of the greatest hymns are set to old, rabble-rousing drinking tunes so it is actually quite fitting that modern worship seems slightly “karaoke”- this, after all, feature of modern pubs!
I don’t think worship leaders should be wasting their time aiming for a more “authentic” form of worship. Rather, they should assume that people in the congregation really are trying to be “real”. The tougher challenge is to find music and musical styles that appeal to the broad spectrum of the congregation- young, old, musical and plain tone-deaf! It is a very tricky task and even the most dynamic worship leaders are not going to please everyone.
squarepig,
I concur on the genuineness. Just because one person doesn’t relate to something doesn’t mean that it isn’t a significant to someone else.
After a two year break from church I attended a service last Sunday night and had a similar view. If you’re into the mode of worship then it works but you actually have to get into it.
We’re definately needing to do a lot more of the tough stuff – experimenting and refining new worship modes or vehicles of expression through which people can worship. The challenge here lies with us “oldies” who’re used to particular ways of worship. We are the ones most likely to reject alternative expressions as we’re so used to having certain ones work for us. The level of challenge we face getting into something new is in fact similar to the level of challenge others face getting into what works for us.
deusjuvat
What do you mean by authenticity?
How do you see the search for authenticity as a waste of time?
What is an example of “grim neo-earnestness” searching for authenticity, just so I know what you are talking about?
Clearly if a style of music is going to be accepted by a community it needs to appeal to that community, I agree. But I would not apply music industry thinking to this, that is making decisions based solely on “appeal” and getting maximum following.
I personally feel that the core question in the search for spiritual community is in fact the question of authenticity.
Also it is important to note that any search for the authentic is bound to appear inauthentic at first, because it will be based on a rejection of aspects of the culture it is critiquing.
So for example if I start to teach a Sami Joik (a folk song of Lappland) in Cape Town in 2008, in the search for meaning beyond western privatised rationalistic religion, would you see the use of this exotic song as inauthentic?
I have spent a lot of time in the far-east and most evenings I would end up in a KTV bar (Karaoke). My experience was of an Authentic cultural and social activity. However, Karaoke in Cape Town is as Authentic in this culture as Norwegian clog-dancing in Soweto. However, the same could be said of most forms of expression witnessed in and out of “church”. This is not always a bad thing.
Each community is the sum of the individuals and their personal perspective on how to relate to God. I believe that the role of a worship leader is to create a harmony out of the voices that make up the community. This is oppose to introducing a foreign or external method. This will require a collective and collaborative effort by all in contributing to the creation of worship. Then you will have an authentic worship that will be unique to that community as each participant’s imprint will be evident.
Hi Nic,
I very much assume that your use of the Sami Joik will be authentic, but no more so than a million other activities coming under the banner of worship. I am simply suggesting that the word “authentic” be banned from use at all sensible churches immediately because it has no connection with the “search for spiritual community”. Rather, its true realm is with stuffy college professors – (all furrowed brow & spectacles: no fun!) – them earnest folk who somehow imagine themselves slightly superior to the hoi polloi beneath them.
Go mad. Be creative. Stretch the horizons, I say. But it is a pernicious liberty to speak of an authentic worship. The search for the spirtually “authentic” is a non-concept because people are 4 real. It is the kind of search that usually only leads you face to face with the biggest fraud you ever met- namely yourself.
DJ
P.S. Good luck with the Joik! For further listening suggestions, I would recommend Martyn Bennett’s “Bothy Culture”
Nic,
I very much assume that your use of the Sami Joik will be authentic (and a lot of fun!) but no more so than a million other activities coming under the banner of worship.
I am simply suggesting that the word “authentic” be banned from use at all sensible churches immediately because it has no connection with the “search for spiritual community”. Rather, its realm is with stuffy college professors (all furrowed brow & spectacles), people with too much time on their hands or, worse still, them earnest folk who believe themselves somehow intellectually superior to the hoi polloi.
Go mad. Be creative. Stretch the horizons. But, frankly, it is a liberty to speak of a more authentic form of worship. The search for spirtual “authenticity” is both a non-concept and a slap in the face. It is the type of search that usually leads you back face-to-face with the biggest fraud you ever met- namely yourself.
d j
P.S. Good luck with the Joik! For further listening suggestions, I would recommend Martyn Bennett’s “Bothy Culture”
Authentic pre-packaged Hillsong/Vineyard/Matt Redman worship…mass media, marketed through churches.
Wow, that’s a cynical, depressing thought! We should rather all take a deep breath and sing, “Oink!”
dj deusjuvat
The use of the joik MAY prove to be authentic, we cannot know until we try it! I have come to learn the power of failure.
I failed just 10 days ago when I slammed on REM’s “Loosing my religion” at the height of a “worship time”. Most didn’t get it. More exactly they felt uncomfortable. While the tune is a highly authentic critique of mans artificial spirituality, it is communicated using irony, and people are not used to the ironic in an environment which is customarily sincere, if not pious.
I think we are probably at cross purposes in our relative understandings of authenticity. I think it’s possible you ascribe a lot of meaning to it that I am not seeing.
Is your issue with the churches or the academic use of the notion of authenticity? I think I understand the latter – academics are always in search of “the source” of an idea, and get very purist and judgemental in their quest.
However, what is the use of the idea in the church? I suppose I am not in a position to say, having been minimally exposed to that culture for the last 15 years.
That said, I don’t see real insight into the matter in evangelical christian circles.
… the word “authentic” … has no connection with the “search for spiritual community”.
I disagree 99%. The 1% due to the possibility that you are really suggesting the word itself is the problem, not the idea.
But I think you are saying the search for spiritual community has no bearing on the search for authenticity.
However, in my thinking, the basic reason why spiritual community does not work is because the notion of authenticity is not taken seriously.
“The search for spiritual “authenticity” is both a non-concept and a slap in the face”. It IS a concept, and how is it a slap in the face?
By “yourself” as the biggest fraud you ever met, I assume you mean us humans as opposed to me, Nic Paton. How, pray tell, does pursuing authenticity expose us as fraudulant?
D J, I am not asking these questions facetiously. But you are making very strong assertions and you need to explain what you mean.
I intuit we are on the same path, but our language suggests we are in opposition.
Martyn Bennett, G-d rest his soul, is a wonderful exponent of what I view as authentic. He both grasps his (Hebredaian?) roots as well as new technologies and makes a wonderful, very authentic brew of it.
I’m both a navel-gazing extrovert, and confessed fraudster and dealing with it!!
Consider the following two Psalms and let’s Chill-out.
Make a joyful noise… – Psalm 100
Create in me a pure heart…. – Psalm 51
PS: Squarepig, I will try be light from here on.
I’m an horizon-gazing introvert, a confessed meaning junkie and dealing with it.
I feel the search for the authentic in my gut, and will not chill out until I find it.
However I think your suggestion, oh Fakester/Trickster/Hermes/Fraudster/Coyote/Mercury/Fox, to make a joyful noise to the Lord with a pure heart, are right on.
I think as long as we are talking about it and are aware of the dangers of our singing practises, then surely we are in a safer place? However, sometimes when I put the critique to bed I find I experience God in singing more readily than if I wear my analytical thinking cap.
There are moments when a worship song really helps me in expressing to God those unutterable sighs.
But saying that, worship music has been predominated by a tradition of “soft rock” which drives me nuts at times. I don’t understand why we can’t be more creative. Great music exists in the main stream because people are constantly trying to find new sounds and exciting ways to express things. God is the most creative being on the planet and if we in some way reflect him, we are doing an appauling job in church.
The self same cousin who caused all this trouble in the first place – listened to a “worship” cd I put on a couple of months back. He said “they all sound exactly the same!” He’s so right. I am a songwriter but there’s some aversion in me to writing “worship” songs because I just can’t get away from the platitudes. Anyway this is a whole other bug bear….I have oinked my full
But I think you are just starting to oink.
This is a crucial issue (for me anyway), because I could never understand the disparity between industrially conceived music (by which I mean much pop, and much christian worship music, to its discredit) and the rest of the great sonic universe.
When you reach this stage, the appropriate thing to do is stop and reflect. You have been repelled by platitude. If you had NOT been repelled I might have questioned your spirituality and artistry.
I don’t think we realise just how offensive cliche, dogma, and uncritical creative resposes are to the Most Creative. OK maybe put that way it sounds harsh or judgemental, however, rather take it as passionate.
Let all keep oinking, because 13 commnets in, this conversation is only just starting up …
I find it so difficult to write songs about God without feeling like I’ve reduced the “Mystery of the Universe” into the miserable shoe box of my experience. Instead I seem to take the “this is me” route which ends up sounding completely self-absorbed. This has always been my dilemma. I’d like to write a piece of music that communicates the sense of utter speechlessness which I think would be most appropriate in the scenario. Multi-media miught do it!!
I remember Wayne, you(Nic) and I speaking about how images are so crucial to communication in this day and age. And how to a large extent they have replaced lyrics. (only too evident in cringe-factor worship songs) Wayne was saying when the songs do work its more because of the music that takes you somewhere rather than the uniqueness of the words. I agree.
I like the idea of single (visual) words that expand imagination rather than reduce it like against a backdrop of images…and to throw them together with the most amazing instrumental landscape piece. For me that might begin to scratch the surface…
What about long litergies, ancient prayers and beautiful declarations about God?? If we could somehow run those into our music? I have often thought about “praise singers” in the Zulu custom who shout long eulogies to the king in front of all the people. I’m sure they work for days and days on those words. I’m sure they use some ancient words and traditions. I’m sure they’re not reductiionist. There’s fan fare and there’s dancing and images. Surely this is more fitting somehow?? Our church expression has become so clinical.
Now thats some good, fruitful oinking. Lost to say, I’ll try be brief:
I think our experience is not miserable, but a vital concreting of what could be abstract and meaningless. What IS miserable, is our ego/self.
If we can experience things without that being central, then OUR experience is in fact the site – the incarnation – of the potential glories which we sense.
I think we are only beginning to explore the visual language, so it’s exciting how that might go. I have recently been turned on to soundtracks – they are generally music that create space for other things. One such thing might be more visual imagery.
One problem we have in our culture is verbosity. We use too many words, and they loose their meaning. We need to learn the langauge of silence.
I like the appeal of ancient / premodern traditions. Isibongo (praise songs) and meditative styles seem appropriate. As I said, I have a “joik” to share (and thats no joke) (and THATS no joke) (Neither of anything I have said heretofore is a joke) (Relax – just oinking, I mean joiking).
More, RE: Karioke
The problem with Karioke for me is that it creates a false “aura of performance”, and that it is based too heavily in Literate-Hitech culture. It’s all about the illusion of stardom.
When used in a communal worship setting, projected words are different. They are there in my mind to uphold the tyranny of the written word. From this tyrrany also comes doctrine, chatechism, and law. “Powerpointism” (externalised brain dumps with prepackaged formats) is a practice from the boardroom, and I suggest not altogether appropriate in a scared space.
It’s obvious from Film and TV that if a screen is up people will all stare at it. Now, is this rote reaction iconic, or idolatorous? Does the screen draw us to the mysteries of the Divine, or does it just emphasise our status as slaves of technology and the written word? If I am expressing willing slavehood to anything other than G-d, how can I be worshipping?
We need a new paradigm. Isibongo and other primal practices like seem to offer a way out. We are dangerously unbalanced away from age old oral practices, where words are made alive by breath.
Here are some thoughts I have had on some new approaches to worship:
http://soundandsilence.wordpress.com/2007/02/03/a-worthy-worship-8-doing-it/
http://soundandsilence.wordpress.com/2007/08/21/curating-sacred-sound-and-image/
Hi! Well, I’ve been wanting to reply to this, but felt I needed to ponder my thoughts, and what has been said…this is my late end of work quick reply for now…
I’m sad that a few commentors’ experiences of worship have been likened to karaoke but I can quite understand, as I’ve seen people worship the ‘god of the overhead’, more than WHO the songs are actually being sung to and using them as tools to help bring connection – as the words bring a crisis of reality or disonance to the singer’s journey.
Why songs as one of the means of worshipping? Well, it’s something we can do together. Music and Singing has stood the test of time. We’re encouraged to do it (all over the scriptures), and it also has physical/chemical manifestations in our bodies…. there is just something about singing together and, I think, we were made to do it.
Our worship values, where i’m from, are: Intimacy, Authenticity/Integrity and Accessibility.
Authenticity = “The quality or condition of being authentic, trustworthy, or genuine” – for us this means: We come as we are. We want to be honest. If we’re down, we’re down, and if the words aren’t a reality for us at that moment, we don’t have to sing them, or we can want to be at that place that the words lead us to. Some of the words are ancient truths. They help us remember who we are in God, and who God is – this often lifts our spirits. It gives us hope, and melodies hepl us remember the words, which stick more than the sermons…
We don’t hype people up into a frenzy or manipulate them as a lead worshipper. Our job is to create an environment condusive to worshipping and encountering God.
Sometimes the words bring us to a place of conflict…or crisis of decision. ‘Those aren’t real for me, but I want them to be’…. Sometimes the Spirit puts his finger on a place that is sore in us, and speaks into that area, sometimes actually drawing near and doing surgery in us…
The words are there as a guide. Ultimately, we’d wish people to know the songs well enough, that they can close their eyes, forget about the band, lead worshipper, and come for the purpose they are there….to encounter, celebrate and dance with God. In my experience, God digs to hang out with his family….and He arrives….
FUN
So I guess, it helps that the words are easy to follow. The melodies are catchy, and people can access what is going on.
That can be a journey for a spiritual community to go on…
For me, I’m home with what we do, but also am keen to experiment…but what we’ve got for now seems to work well for the general community of believers, and with some of the more local kwaito/break beat/lounge music I’m playing with, maybe it’ll be more accessible to unchurched ppl too one of these days – but unfortunately, you can’t always make everyone happy.
Some more to follow, I’m sure….
Hi Nic,
Phew, I think I’m going to make this my last post on the topic! I don’t think your questions are facetious, and we probably ARE on the same track here.
To summarize, I am annoyed that the very people who tell us what to sing and what Christian cd’s to buy (usually their own, mass-marketed ones, yes…depressing indeed!)) are now daring to tell us that our worship is not “authentic”- or at least not authentic enough! (This has actually happened on more than one occasion in the circles I move in)
What they say may or may not be true, but nobody has the right to judge the reality of a person’s “conversation” with Christ: their worship. It’s a personal thing. That’s what I meant by non-concept…nobody sticking their noses in on that simple, sacred interface between a man or woman and their God.
Some worship leaders have a cheek. They should stick to the music and stop judging the “quality” of their congregations.
I have never thought you one of these people! You seem like a cool guy. God bless
D J
Hi Nic,
Phew! I think I’m going to make this my last post on the topic. I don’t think your questions are facetious, and we probably ARE on the same track here.
To summarize, I am annoyed that the very people who tell us what to sing and what Christian cd’s to buy (usually their own, mass-marketed ones, yes…depressing indeed!))are now daring to tell us that our worship is not “authentic”- or at least not authentic enough!(This has actually happened on more than one occasion in the church circles I move in).
What they say may or may not be true, but nobody has the right to judge the reality of a person’s “conversation” with Christ: their worship. It’s a personal thing. That’s what I meant by non-concept….nobody daring to stick their nose in on that simple, sacred interface between a man or woman and their God.
My overall initial squeal being that some worship leaders have a cheek. They should stick to the music and stop judging the “quality” of their congregation.
I have not been pegging you one of these people! You seem like a cool guy. God bless
D J (now officially oinked out on this subject!!!)
P.S. You started playing “losing my religion” during worship? What kind of a crazy cat are you?
I am a post-church, semi-rock, omnipropophetic, neotribal sort of cat. [smiley wink]
DJ thanks for your clarification and willingness to explore this. I think the people who are putting an authenticity trip on you seem somewhat hypocritical. By forcing their industrially motivated view of authenticity down the throat of the congregation, they are themselves being inauthentic.
It’s not easy being a worship leader. In fact it has become untenable, and I think we should abolish the role, and replace it with that of the worship curator. The curator is much more attuned to the communal spirit, the vox communitas, than they are to their own special genius. And I am not knocking the individual genius, rather simply re-siting it in communuity.
Be healed. Be joyful, wild and authentic.
In the wise words of FEOTU, one of our own sages: “I believe that the role of a worship leader is to create a harmony out of the voices that make up the community.”
Now we have come to a state of repose, I simply must ask – who and where are you?
Stewdio
Didn’t see you lurking until now. Thanks for you insiders view.
I’m largely in agreement with your views. Especially regards “Intimacy, Authenticity/Integrity and Accessibility”. These are good values. I especially like the idea that authenticity = trustworthyness – that’s excellant!
What it suggests is that authenticity is not something that can happen apart from community. I use the word in its broad sense; community with the Other, G-d, All Creation, fellow humans, and also ourselves, undivided and in good balance. There is community between our right and left brains, for some different examples, or between us and plants, between us and subatomic particles.
If there is any fear or ignorance involved, that means no trust, and therefore less authenticity.
“you can’t always make everyone happy” – well there’s the dilemma of the WL in a nutshell. Of course not, and one should not expect to. The WL/WC needs to be mature enough to deal with Susan’s grumpiness or Jimbo’s metalhead disposition. They can’t be put off by negative vibes from some quarters.
Ultimately their “job” (task-quest-vocation?) is to hear the voice of the spirit and lead people in that direction. They are not democrats, although they hear the spirit via the vox communitas.
I don’t think its any different with any recognised artist. I’ll use REM again (cause I’m too lazy to think of someone younger). No one doubts Stipe, they simply trust him to lead them.
Or Dylan – when he put on a strat in 66 he was booed and called Judas for betraying the acoustic land of his forebears. But he had a vision and he led the people out of the land they were familiar with. Grumblers dissented but he didn’t give a shit. And people recognised his authentic prophetry, and the rest is his-story. You can’t argue with His Bobness. Even if he is all messed up by his own genius, deeply scarred, a freak of man, we still trust him.
Do you think that the model for “church” worship is in essence any different to that of genuine followers of acknowledged poets of pop culture?
Nic, I’m not 100% sure the notion of abolishing the “worship leader” is in order. Personally, I see that role continuing meaningfully with the context of church as we know it.
In that context I’m all for worship being technically good and personally enjoyable. If an outsider perceives this as karoake and notes that it’s slighly wierd that’s cause getting into worship, any mode or model of worship, takes intention and work and requires that the object of worship be meaningfully perceived in one sense or another and hence meaningfully related to by that particular practice.
However, I see the notion of the “worship curator” emerging in another context, the church as we don’t know it yet, one meaningfully part of an alternative expression of worship by the church of another culture.
In the emerging context those experimenting face significant barriers. We may perceive the object of our worship (Godde the Father-Mother, Son/Risen Lord and Spirit) but the vehicle of worship – whether movement or drumming or meditation or Taize or wha’eva – will require some work. Work will be needed to turn it into something that allows for meaningful experience for the individual, the community and Goddeself.
OK OK I don’t mean abolish, I mean transform. The worship leader needs to “broaden the tent” to include a lot of other things.
That said, maybe its a matter of broadening the roles/vision/myth in the community more than just for the WL.
In fact I did some WL/WC last night, and yeah – it was good.
Fear not stewdio, I am no aboltionist!
I’m keen to try out a Christian Karaoke and considering order the following: http://www.usa-karaoke.com/display_details.asp?productCode=CDCB5020 Any one keen to join in?
feotu, I think I’m going to let you enjoy that one on your own
Where’s your sense of Adventure ? hee hee hee!!!
I like Tim’s comment no 23. – puts things in their place and balances the perspectives. Nice!
I am still laughing at dejuvat’s assessment of Nic as a ‘crazy cat’. I was there when that “losing my religion” song came on. I must say it was a huge leap for me!!! Finding worship in “that’s me in the corner” didn’t really do it for me. But hey, another month with the likes of Nic and Tim and might be finding worshipful nuances in death metal!!! ha ha Karaoke has suddenly taken on a whole new appeal….
Wow, this really did get quite involved. After hearing all about it last Wednesday (when I was doped up on meds, I’ll admit) I thought I’d pop by and see what went down.
Interesting debate.
T